Hi Iain,
Perhaps I see the situation differently from you. From my perspective,
this is an extraordinary intervention "from above" by consensus from
Ubuntu developers. The backporters team has been unable to act for an
extended period of time, and when threatened with closure, nobody from
the team has been able to volunteer to continue in any role, let alone a
leadership role. Others _have_ volunteered; therefore the team is being
replaced.
Nothing stops previous team members from continuing, subject to any
requirements from _new_ team leadership, but they haven't even
volunteered to continue. From my perspective they have effectively
resigned through their extended absence.
On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 02:24:31PM +0100, Iain Lane wrote:
> > Assuming the change is made, following my proposal detail, I intend to
> > remove everyone from ~ubuntu-backports and add Dan as its sole admin,
> > and then let Dan take it from there (I assume he will add Mattia as a
> > team member, and maybe Iain).
>
> To be honest, I think you could - and I'd prefer it if you would - leave
> this up to the team, especially if there are newly active members.
From my perspective, this would be as if people who have neglected[1]
matters for years, and effectively blocked progress, would be retaining
their ability to block progress. This is why I'm against your
suggestion.
IMHO, previous team members who have not participated in this thread
should therefore no longer have the status of being in the team. I agree
with you to leave membership up to the team, but I might differ from you
in that I want this to be up to the *new team*, not people who have
their name attached but haven't done anything for the team in multiple
years and are not stepping up to do so now. IMHO the old and inactive
team members should, due to neglect[1], have no more say than the wider
set of Ubuntu developers in this matter. I value their experience and
opinions, but the final decision making should no longer be up to them
due to their extended absence. IMHO, any previous backporters team
member who doesn't want this to happen has had multiple opportunities to
step up or speak up, and has not done so.
You, Iain, are an exception because you have actually participated in
the conversation. Thank you :)
Further IMHO, I think having old inactive members there is harmful. For
example, for years people have been blocked on backports under the
illusion that the team exists and team members just need to appear to
review and approve their stuff. In reality, the team ceased to exist
years ago; it was just Launchpad that was behind. If the team membership
in Launchpad had been empty accordingly, we'd probably have sought to
address the situation much sooner.
So, my proposal is to empty the team membership, _once_, as part of this
revitalisation. IMHO, only those volunteering to do the whole task of
resurrecting the backports process (so far that's just Dan) should
really have a decision making power here, since they are the only ones
actually taking responsibility. Then the new team members will manage
the team membership list as they feel appropriate.
> I'd like to talk with the new team about this, but I'm personally not
> interested in participating in the current process. It's broken by
> design IMO. I'd be interested in participating in creating a reformed
> process and more than happy to explain to the team what I consider to be
> wrong with the way things are now, but I'll probably not be leading any
> reform efforts myself just for spoons reasons. On that basis I'd be OK
> stepping down from being an administrator, and possibly leaving the team
> altogether, depending on what the active members consider their
> priorities to be.
Thank you for staying involved! Under my proposal I would expect you to
end up being re-added, but I think that would/should be entirely up to
the new team to decide. Specifically this is because if you're unable to
help drive the reform, then that's fine but I think that also means that
you cannot also be a decision-maker as to whether you get re-added or
not. That would be up to those who _are_ driving the reform, since part
of their remit and responsibility is to drive the process for team
membership.
> Again I'd prefer to work that out with the team rather
> than the new owners doing this 'from above'.
IMHO, that ship has sailed. The "from above" approach has become
necessary because the existing team and team leadership has not managed
to make any progress on this themselves; nor did they engage when Thomas
volunteered to join the team to help. You can't have it both ways here.
I expect Dan to work with you, and Ubuntu developers at large, to figure
out a process that works for everybody. But I don't think he should be
tied by the need to seek approval from team alumni who have neglected
their responsibilities for years[1]. I think that one way to make this
clear is by explicitly removing old, inactive team members from the team
in Launchpad. This makes it clear that decisions will be made by the
*new* team. Opinions from old team members are valued but they should
not have any decision making powers. Their inability in this area is
exactly why this change is happening.
If Dan thinks otherwise then my view is moot, of course, since he's part
of the new team that determines membership for themselves. However I
don't think he should be burdened by social obligations of keeping old
and inactive team members around because they might be offended at being
removed, and so I think now is the best time to start afresh. Once the
team works out how they want to manage team membership, he can then add
or re-add anyone as appropriate.
Robie
[1] I hope "neglect" doesn't come across too strong. Everyone has their
own priorities, and when they're volunteering their time (whether
themselves or through an employer), we're grateful for what time they
can commit, not ungrateful for what they cannot find the time to do.
However, from the perspective of the team as a whole, I think that
"neglect" is the only fair way of describing what has happened, and it's
important for us to acknowledge this in order to make progress.
