I think it's about time that Ubuntu Developer realtime conversation
moved from IRC to Matrix. What do you think? Can we reach a consensus on
this topic?
DO NOT SWITCH YET
I can't force anyone not to switch immediately, but preferably either we
all move or nobody moves to prevent further fragmentation. Please don't
leave anyone out of conversations because they aren't lurking in both
places. First let's discuss, and if we decide to move, then we can pick
a date to move the "official" place for realtime Ubuntu developer
conversation.
Matrix seems to be well established in the wider Ubuntu community now.
Many thanks to all involved in making that happen[1][2][3]!
I conducted a poll of Ubuntu Developers within Canonical in July 2024.
Of those who answered, 10 were in favour of moving (including myself), 1
was against, and 6 wanted further discussion. I didn't consider that
number large enough to warrant pushing for a change immediately. I
invited that "further discussion" but nothing seems to have happened, so
I think it's time for a wider discussion with an aim to reach a decision
now.
# Making a decision
> The poorest decision of all is no decision: clarity of direction has
> value in itself...
> A decision must still be made.
Because of the fragmentation concern, I think it's important that we
make a single, unified decision for all Ubuntu developers. Let's have a
discussion period first, then ask the Technical Board to weigh the
discussion and make that decision.
# What moving *means*
"Official" communication, such as making requests of privileged Ubuntu
developer teams, could be expected to be actioned if requested on the
agreed platform only. Similarly, you can consider your social
responsibility to other developers in relation to your work in Ubuntu
development to be fulfilled if you are present on that platform[4]. And
Canonical will follow in its requirement for its employed Ubuntu
developers to be present on that agreed platform during their working
hours.
I'm specifically referring to #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-release to lead
the pack. I suppose other miscellaneous Ubuntu development related
channels could move at their own pace. Or are there any other specific
channels that should move at the same time?
Of course Ubuntu-related discussion happens in all kinds of different
places. I'm not suggesting that any Ubuntu IRC channels be shut down;
just that Ubuntu developer teams all make Matrix their primary place of
realtime contact (should they have one).
I think there are (at least) three groups whose needs we should think
about:
1) Ubuntu developers who work for Canonical. We use Mattermost
internally. We're used to the rich communications that it provides, such
as threading, sync between multiple devices, Markdown formatting,
integrated history and the ability to bring others into a conversation
with history available to them. It's a tough sell to ask new Canonical
employees to downgrade to IRC if they want to talk about Ubuntu
development[5]. It's too easy to try and contact others about Ubuntu
developers internally on Mattermost since many active Ubuntu developers
are at Canonical. As a result, conversations that should be happening in
public happen on private Mattermost all too often. People seem to have
largely given up on pushing conversations to IRC. I think a richer
alternative will help with this, and not moving away from IRC is
thereful harmful.
2) New contributors. We always encourage more! What's going to be
easiest for them to use: IRC or Matrix? What's the sort of interface and
usability they expect, and to what extent are they provided? Again, I
think we've reached the point that we're harming the project's future by
losing potential participants by staying where we are.
3) People who have been using IRC for many years. Of course you're used
to what you do, and change is disruptive. There is certain to be
functionality that isn't at parity on Matrix. But I think we must
consider that the vast majority of potential participants aren't going
to notice. The proportion of the future project who care about this is
growing increasingly small, and therefore I again think that on balance
the harm in not moving outweighs this consideration.
My opinion is therefore that for the first two groups, times have
changed to the point now that we're actually harming the project by not
moving, while the third group continues to diminish. Therefore we should
move.
But if you have other points to raise, please do!
# Collapsing #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-release into one
Personally I don't think the existing split works very well.
Conversations tend to stay in the channel they started, even if after a
while thread drift takes it into the context of the other. So to keep in
touch, one has two places to follow for no real reason, together with
the various other non-realtime places.
One argument I've heard to maintain a split is that privileged teams can
sift through other conversations to find privileged team requests more
easily. But Matrix has threads, so this together with keyword highlights
should suffice, shouldn't it?
Could we start perhaps by combining both #ubuntu-devel and
#ubuntu-release into a single #devel:ubuntu.com, and split out if this
doesn't work? I suggest this would be easier than than trying to merge
them later.
If you consider the timing of this email, then of course I have an
ulterior motive here. But I think this is a change that was overdue
already regardless of that.
Please discuss, and once everyone involved has had an opportunity to
discuss, I'll ask the Technical Board for a decision.
Thanks!
Robie
[1]: https://ubuntu.com/community/communications/matrix
[2]: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/modern-communication-platforms-call-for-feedback/36763
[3]: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/modern-communication-platforms-matrix-testing/40313
[4]: Although if someone exclusively contributes in non-realtime ways
using other channels, I think that's fine, too.
[5]:
A recent conversation I had went a bit like this, all on Mattermost:
$manager: $other_manager is asking about an important SRU for
$topic. Please could you prioritise reviewing that today?
$me: sure!
<fails to find $topic in any SRU queue nor $other_manager on IRC>
$me (to $other_manager): hi! $manager sent me. Where am I looking
for this SRU for $topic?
$other_manager: I'm not sure. Please ask $engineer.
<fails to find $engineer on IRC>
$me (to $engineer): I've been asked to review an important SRU for
$topic but I can't find it in any queue. Where is it, please?
$me: also, please can you join and continue this converation on IRC,
since this converation should be in public?
$engineer: Here's the SRU: $link. What's IRC?
$me: ╯︵ ┻━┻
I hope this helps to illustrate how challenging it is for
Canonical-employed Ubuntu developers to move discussions to IRC when
needed.
